Saturday 29 May 2021

Big-Mouth Hollow-Points & Flying Doughnuts:

 "Ballistics" is interesting stuff eh .. 

But .. warning warning this is just an opinion .. but I doubt that there is much practical terminal performance difference between a .38"S&W Special fired from a 2 inch snubby revolver and a decent  .38 S&W fired from a 4 inch antique revolver barrel.


I was thinking about 'lead wadcutters' loaded backwards as expanding loads for 'bowling pin' matches etc. - Of course there is a very obvious direct CONFLICT between Expansion and Penetration. - Bigger Diameter > More Drag > Less Penetration.

Gun Sam_Revolver Aficionado finds that soft lead 38 Special wadcutters (.357" dia.) expand to .721" in his cloth covered "Ballistic Baloney Pack" and water medium .. That's DOUBLE the diameter - or FOUR times the surface area - from .1001 sq. inch to .4083 sq. inch - I think that's bloody impressive .721"

except .. these backwards looking slugs failed to penetrate to a needed optimum degree of perhaps 12 inches.

- Now, the center-post in Hydra-shok Deep bullets is said to be there in part to improve penetration to 15 inches ..
.38 S&W Special Federal Hydra-Shok Deep

- So I'm now wondering if a 'center-post' would help these soft lead wad-cutter expanders to push further? - How about dropping a wee blob of adhesive into that gaping hollow followed by a penetrating-probe 'post' - perhaps made from a steel ball bearing or maybe a spent small pistol-primer? .. I enjoy DIY eh.


-  I was reminded online of the ULTRAMAG Cartridges from PMC:

Around 1985 / 1986, PMC would adapt a design by Abe Flatau (designer of the ring-airfoil and steel nose Guilford HP pistol bullet) in their own line of "Ultramag" cartridges in .38spl and .44spl. The first .38spl projectiles were true hollow cylindrical bullets with a tapered nose and plastic obturating base. These were made of brass (66 grains) and had decent, yet limited enhanced penetration abilities at 1,500fps. These were effective against soft body armor, but not against steel plate, or hard metals. The federal law restricting pistol-caliber AP bullets would soon follow in August, 1986, and so PMC would switch their now restricted brass bullets over to 100% copper. Using copper would more or less defeat the intended purpose of real enhanced penetration, and these copper tubular bullets would continue on as a novelty of sorts for a few years until PMC gave up on the concept altogether. The initial brass bullets were only produced for a year or so in .38spl, and are fairly rare today as collector’s items. The copper versions are much more common, and full boxes of .38spl can be found via auction websites at times for anywhere from $40 to $75, with the .44spl boxes being worth closer to $100.

Next I came across THUNDERZAP bullets ..

Which were very light weight 'TEFLON' 36 grain High velocity rounds marketed by Rich Davis

You can find Jerry Miculeks' spectacular demo of these on video here ..

 These rounds seem to have been withdrawn from the market for unknown reasons .. perhaps they were rubbish? - But such light weight rounds would have a high 'SAFETY' factor with their very limited range and penetration.

I read this next linked story about 'carry gun performance' and thought that's decent work - before spotting the writers name at the top .. Greg Ellifritz .. makes sense eh.

I do wish to clearly state that I fully understand that New Zealand Police do not want to permit the lawful use of any firearm for SELF DEFENCE other than by themselves - despite such being completely legal. - I once again wish to state that I have no thoughts of violence under any circumstance as I am both a pacifist and an anti-nuclear activist..

Martin K.

Tuesday 25 May 2021

NZ Firearms Licence Application Is DISCRIMINATORY:

 The current firearms application form introduced by NZ Police following the Christchurch Mosque Massacres discriminates in several areas ..

A/- For a start - any person applying for a F.Licence who has ever previously held a New Zealand licence (since expired) is required to pay an application fee that is just short of TWICE the cost ($241.50 rather than $126.50) of those being fresh applicants.

B/- The Application form is a 35 page document that discriminates against the four out of five (- 4/5), New Zealanders who are not operating at "a highly effective level of literacy" - who do less well at Document & quantitative literacy - AND it discriminates particularly against "the majority of Maori & Pacific Islands people and those from other minority ethnic groups who function beneath the level of competency to effectively meet the demands of everyday life."

- Please refer to the findings of the latest international ADULT LITERACY SURVEY .. link:

- The police  35 Page Application Form is just the START of the process - following full payment of the (non-refundable) applicable Application fee .. as various further supporting documents and images must be included or scanned for attachment to the on-line version of the application form.

No doubt there will be some current sporting shooters who remain unaware of what will be required of them before their current license expires .. they may also  not know that there are delays to the processing of Firearms Licence Applications that are considerably greater than 12 months and that when a license expires the firearms owner will be required to surrender their property to a current holder and cease all unsupervised shooting activity.

When might we expect - or hope - that our NZ Shooting Organizations will take remedial action against the many unreasonable impositions of NZ Police? .. perhaps the office holders of these societies are themselves struggling to read and comprehend the discriminatory and restrictive nature of this police generated assault on New Zealander's Civil Rights.

It is noteworthy that the application form for consideration to become a New Zealand Police Constable is only ONE PAGE. -  And that armed police are not required to have a Firearms License.

Marty K.

Monday 24 May 2021

It's Not Binary, Bubba .. It's a Goldilocks Zone:

Deadly Eh
 Someone new has reviewed Greg Ellifritz's 10 y.o. old statistical Stopping Power Study - a caliber-performance analysis - and is now using the same recorded facts to paint his own picture of the world .. It's worth reading and viewing .. because ALL information is good.

You can always find some little thing to be annoyed about - if you want to get offended eh - but I might only observe that this 'TIER THREE'' commentator is rather dismissive of the .32" caliber stats - perhaps not remembering that this bore is the same as the British .303" Battle Rifles, AK 47s, and slightly bigger than the .308" rifles. - Yes I do know that the bullet weight & velocities are less than a rifles .. but the 327 Federal Magnum and the 32" H&R Magnum rounds are both well respected by "those that know".

Greg's ORIGINAL Study and comments can be found here ..

STOPPING POWER is not a simple yes-no (binary?) choice - It is a whole cake-mix of ingredients where even the exact same blend will give very different results depending on other variable factors.

Bigger (40 mm) & Better? - Aint Necessarily So ..

I accept ( - after 60+ years consideration) that the bigger bore guns with heavier bullets - throwing hotter velocities do show evidence of enhanced effectiveness when directed to vital areas.

- No doubt about it.  - BUT can the shooter carry, - draw & fire, - withstand the felt blast & recoil - all while precisely and rapidly directing her shots?

The resultant HIT or MISS are binary outcomes eh.

There are obvious variable factors that have lead to compromised choices .. with the result that less powerful tools are sometimes preferred - such as the .38 Special revolver and the 9 mm semi-auto .. when considering practical issues of use affected by a range of human factors and capability.

Even more .. there are decisive issues outside of the firearm's "stopping power" function. - Can you afford to buy and feed XXX firearm? - Is the ammunition readily available in your locality? - Is your hand size & shape a good match to this gun? - Is your body mass and shape such that you can holster and wear your preferred arm comfortably if permitted? - Is your eyesight & grip strength good enough?

Four inches is often a satisfactory barrel length - while the stubby 2 or 3 inchers might roar louder and blast your ears while kicking strongly skywards. - Five to six inches can shoot a load with potentially better accuracy - better velocity and less recoil reaction - but can you find the space for these longer barrels? The secure place for a pistol - as with your purse - is on your person .. not in a vehicle nor in a shoulder bag swinging from a strap.

What is your environment .. Grizzly bear country or inner city - Cold Northern Climes or hot & humid?

- An "expert's gun" might be too complicated in function for you .. or your partner - consider the seven controls on some semi-autos versus only 3 on a standard Glock or a revolver.

Lots Of Colors & Sizes of Hogue Grips for Ruger 38 Special LCR.

I dunno if I've got this right .. but if you discard both the truly BRUTAL stuff in the upper power strata and the PIPSQUEAK rounds at the bottom of the deck .. within what remains you should have a selection that can offer that sweet-spot for you to try for yourself - before making your pick.

That absolutely perfect-in-every-way  handgun - that was never invented .. may not suite you  - because maybe your hands are too big - or too small or you've got an old injury somewhere or ..

Marty K.

Friday 21 May 2021

Wobbly Webley - Got a "Safety"?

 This picture shows two of my 38 Mk.IV Webley revolvers .. you will see the one with the 5 inch barrel has a frame 'hump' behind the hammer where the factory fit the optional cross-bolt safety to the 'POLICE SAFETY MODEL' - whereas the 4 inch barreled unit is free of such nonsense.

Both Are Mk.IV .38" Webley Revolvers

 .. But The 5 inch Is An ex Singapore Police Force 'SAFETY' Model

"Safeties" on revolvers are clear examples of the stupidity that often goes with authority .. some managers - who no doubt were promoted to the level of their incompetence - "believe" that they are now so important that their opinions must gain respect as law.

I have read that many of these classic revolvers imported into U S were retro-fitted with a hammer blocking cross bolt for ATF points approval - I think this image may be of one such.

. there may be other different adaptations around ( but I'm no expert).

I guess this is not a total disaster - as you can always try to just ignore it being there as long as it's not obstructive .. but it is totally stupid in much the same way that the S&W revolver key-lock hole is.

However - that factory safety wouldn't put me off owning something as nice as this one below ..

IF I could afford one:

The rather rare Webley-Fosbery 'Automatic revolvers' were also fitted with a 'Safety' that might be justified by the gun - when fired - automatically cocking the hammer for the next shot ..

Webley-Fosbery Automatic Revolver Was a ZIG-ZAG Self Cocking Revolver.

Something else even more awful was done to the big .455 Webleys that fled from UK to U S .. they were "SHAVED" at the rear face of the cylinder to allow use of the American .45 acp cartridges that will go bang when loaded into moon-clips .. BUT they will also go >KABOOM< as the .45 ACP round is over the Webley's pressure rating ..


There is another tale of U S commercial butchery whereby Lend-Lease S&W Victory Model revolvers that were made for the WWII Brits in 38-200 (38 S&W) - were deported back to USA when no longer needed - and were adapted to fire the 38 SPECIAL cartridge by boring the chambers deeper! - Not a very useful adaptation due to the differences in both bullet diameter & the case diameters. It appears that Lee Harvey Oswald bought, and used one of those when he wasn't assassinating the U S President .. 


.. There are many things that can be tried eh - but they don't always satisfy.

The Hornady wax lubed .38 caliber 148 grain wadcutter pills I load currently for the 38-Mk.IV Webleys will fly from the muzzle in either loaded orientation .. that makes a BIG hollow-point eh.

.. If you look closely (- as you should) at a .38 Mk.IV Webley you'll see that the cylinder NOTCHES are right above the chambers and there isn't much metal thickness there - hopefully the brass cases are tough enough - but don't overload your ammo eh.

I just recently found this North Carolina outfit who offer replacement grip slabs. I have no experience with them:

Marty K.

Wednesday 19 May 2021

NZ Police Cock It Up Again

 ARSUXEO Padded shorts from the UK .. ideal for those wishing to enhance the look of their box .. Brainbox that is - bearing in mind that males have been accused of being cerebrally focused down there ..

NZ Police have just admitted that nearly 40 firearms license applicants have again had their privacy breached after an email was sent advising the recipients to undertake a firearms safety course.

I'm not sure where our New Zealand Police Management keep their brains or their abilities .. but their frontline staff are hardworking - & discrete in their tolerance of their bosses repeated miss-direction.

ACT MP Nicole McKee says the breach showed police couldn't be trusted with a firearms register - set to be developed during the next three years as part of the Government's second tranche of gun law changes. "A gun register, if leaked, will become a steal-to-order list for gangs and criminals," 

"The Government must abandon its attempt to register every firearm in the country. -"Centralising this information within an agency which has shown time and again that it cannot be trusted to manage it, cannot be allowed to proceed."

- So the police will once again issue a carefully scripted limited apology for their repeated failures in managing firearms licensing - while hoping that some 240,000 fit and proper sporting firearms owners will remain passively compliant under ever increasing abuse and restriction.

- Here's one bloke who's seen the light .. an Enrolled Barrister & Solicitor in the High Court ..

"I am getting really sick of this renewal nonsense from the NZ Police.
I first began my licence renewal process back in February 2020 (16 months ago). I was again called this morning by the NZ Police to enquire as to why my flatmates had not been interviewed by the Police. I had to explain, and point out in my recorded note, that the Interviewer had declined at the time, to interview my flatmates, despite them both making themselves available, ready and willing to engage in the interview process. It was not until I pointed out that this was recorded in my notes by the officer at the time, and the new officer (4th one now I believe), actually went back and read my notes (which he obviously did not do before calling me), that he saw this notation.
I have had my referees interview multiple times. One of them 3 times, the other twice. The Police are again requesting signed documentation from one of my referees for the second time now, despite this being provided previously. I have personally been interviewed in person twice. I have fully complied with every request of the NZ Police in their ever increasing list of requirements. I am an Enrolled Barrister & Solicitor of the High Court of New Zealand (a fit a proper person by definition), I have 3 minor 'interactions' with the NZ Police in 36 years (one speed camera speeding fine (55km/h in a 50km/h zone on Waitangi Weekend with lower tolerances, once when I called the NZ Police on someone else for being drunk and disorderly, and once where I was the victim of an assault), and I am currently a sitting Board member of the ACT Party. I have supplied a signed and dated note directly from my Doctor to support my application.
Suffice it to say, you would be hard pressed to find too many other Kiwi's quite as 'fit and proper' as me (although I'm sure some of you guys qualify).
I am absolutely sick and tired of this complete and total incompetence by the NZ Police to even read or keep their own records in order. I am tired of this damn process taking so long to progress, while all the while actual criminals run around and increasingly do whatever they damn well please.
I am in favour of 'some measure' of gun control. I have no problem being licenced to own firearms. We do want to at least try to make sure it is the responsible citizenry that have access to firearms, but this is beyond ridiculous. Get your shit sorted NZ Police "
John Alcock.

I know at least four legally qualified firearms owners - so organizations such as COLFO, NZ Shooters Federation & SSANZ have no excuse for delaying further in taking High Court action such as a WRIT OF MANDAMAS against the multiple breaches of civil rights and shooters rights by NZ police. Is it possible that these societies are waiting for a direct instruction from their memberships because their committee officers are confused?
Meanwhile in London - the findings of the 8 year independent inquiry into the axe murder of private investigator Daniel Murphy - who was investigating police corruption was due for release 17 May .. but the British Government have put this on an indefinite delay: - Link:
Please contact your firearms groups representatives and tell them to get up off their butts ..
Marty K.
- Have you read my earlier post ? ..

Tuesday 18 May 2021

WEBLEY 'Top Break' Revolvers:

The thing about obsolete weaponry & cartridges is that they STILL work ..

.455 Webley Mk.VI  With The "lesser" Caliber .38 Mk.IV Webley.
"Manstoppers" with Character ..

 - There are those thickos who like to mock the anemic - clunky - old fashioned Webley top-break action revolvers that were issued to British & Commonwealth troops through many conflicts - including both WWI & WWII .. but these tools WORKED and persist to this very day .. still working on the continent of India and elsewhere. They also still go bang most adequately at my rural Pistol Club despite me shooting my handloaded versions of their "obsolete" cartridges.

.450 Adams .. .455 Webley Mk.1  .. .455 Webley Mk.II

The early black powder .450 Adams Cartridge was officially designated .450 Boxer Mk.I and interestingly could also be used in later guns chambered in .455 Webley as it's bullet was sized .455" - as was also the 476 Enfield bullet. - these three British rounds all had brass cases that measured .476"
- I read that the 38-200 cartridge makes similar energy levels to the .450 Adams ..

There are some folk that shy-away from the "obsolete" cartridges but I load my version of the 38-200 cartridges using Starline 38 S&W brass - Federal primers - Hornady 148gn. swaged lead, hollow-based 'wadcutter' bullets (or suitably sized local powder-coated round nose cast pills) - using 9x19mm Lee dies and a 38 Special shell-holder - pressed together with the smallest charge of nitro powder that my Lee Auto Disc powder thrower can drop.

I well understand that it is hard to keep opinion separate from statement of fact - but it has been said that the old 38 S&W cartridge produces power levels close to that of the 38 Special .. which is widely considered to be in a "sweet spot" effective zone for self defense.  This is the "Goldilocks" state of being hot enough but not too hot.

The original 38-200 "Manstopper" loadings used 200 grain soft lead flat nosed and hollow-point slugs that tumbled after impact .. until they were prohibited & withdrawn.

Here is a 'taster' of just how the big Webleys performed in the competent hand of Lieutenant Baines of The Oxford & Buckinghamshire Light Infantry at Ypres ..

"I took pot shots with my revolver at those that ran. I must mention here, for the sake of the incredulous, that there were, I think, three officers in the 52nd in 1914 at Aldershot, who had been known to hit the target at thirty yards, or was it fifteen? — at the officers' annual revolver shoot, and I was one of them. In fact I had been known to hit the target more often than to miss it, and what is more, with the left hand as well as the right. I only mention this in the hope that those that read this will believe me when I say that I don't think I missed one German that I fired at on this day. I fired fifty-two rounds through my revolver, and burnt my left hand on the barrel in reloading. It is not difficult to understand when I say that the longest range at which I fired at a Ger­man, was about thirty yards and the huge bulk of the average Prussian Guardsman made an easy target, even on the run."

Here's a Link to the full record of this action - a very interesting read:

- then here is a further link to an academic dissertation on the British military handguns of World War I .. The Great War - lots of references for research ..

- Even down here in the South Pacific earthquake zone I meet shooters who will only touch pistols stamped with either of the 'classic Frontier' names Colts or Smith & Wesson .. despite both outfits having little connection to the original American pioneers - Both corporates having bankrupted in collapsed disposal sales at various times .. why - one of them was even run by a British lawnmower maker for years.

- Back to 'power levels' and "stopping power" (knockdown power) .. The government-military calculation is/was that 60 foot pounds impact is sufficient to produce the required incapacitating effect from ball shrapnel. However .. different enhanced wounding results are known from sharp items such as arrows, edged weapons, flechettes etc at much lower energy levels. - The power debate continues.

Marty K.

Saturday 15 May 2021

Big Bore's For Close Work:

.577"-.600" Tranter "STOPPER" Revolver & Cartridges. - Now that was a gun ..
400 grains @ around 725 feet per second .. WHACK 

The other day I read "Shooters are an interesting bunch - if you ask two of them what is the best caliber .. you'll get at least three opinions". 

Progression of the large bore STOPPERS  .. Big bores seem to stick around with handgun preferences - whereas rifle calibers have somewhat tightened-up as technology permitted the velocities to rise. 




Howda 4x barrel

Webley 'BBD' - British Bull-Dog revolver

Snubby d/a Revolver.

O/A length 6.75 inch ..

The Glock G29 10mm Auto below is 177mm - nearly 7 inches long (6.97")
- Way back in the late 1860's there was an improved version of the Webley BBD known as the ULSTER Bull-Dog that had an extra inch of grip frame brazed-on for Braddell & Son of Belfast - for better control .. in similar logic to the modern Glock 19X  & G45.
ULSTER Bull-Dog version of The Webley.
A Decent Grip Does Make a Difference.

Please don't ask me for my opinion about big bore versus high velocity 
- as I used to be indecisive but now I'm not sure ..

- What I am sure about is that those big lumps of lead did the job - as also do properly designed modern pistols .. provided either is directed to a vital area, - my second certainty is that any gun that blasts the shooters senses and then recoils so sharply as to hurt her-his hands will deter practice and the accurate placement of bullets .. which is key for results - But well done to all those 'Real Men' who love their 44 Magnums - they probably also drink Guinness.

I have shot-tried a few big-uns - but the only ones I liked & got any good with was my 10 MM Auto Glock 20's (& my black-powder Ruger Old Army .45 revolvers) and that was likely because the grip and trigger reach matched my hands.

.. You'll get a better idea of my 'expertise' when I confess that I find the "easier to control" .40"S&W guns unpleasantly SNAPPY to my taste - whereas I was fine with the full sized 10mm Glock 20.

My Black-Powder Big Bore ROA is Pleasantly SOFT To Shoot
 - With 35 Grains of Powder.

That's life .. We are all different eh ..

Ruger 'Alaskan' 44 Magnum 
.. Similar bore to a Ruger Old Army but VERY different energy

Marty K.

Sunday 9 May 2021

Porkie Pies Again?

 I'm unsure which way to bounce on this - as NZ Police are boasting that they have found & seized 350 illegal firearms plus 2 1/2 MILLION DOLLARS in Cash in ..

"Police Operation focused on preventing firearms getting into the hands of criminals"

Link to police Press Release:

Now I don't wish to be a 'Doubting Thomas' here but if this weapons recovery is totally factual .. why have they not arranged these foul weapons onto white sheeting and released the dramatic photographic images?

- But even more serious - Assistant Commissioner: Investigations, Lauano Sue Schwalger. says that they have arrested 378 in relation to firearms offences.

Now that's 378 armed dangerous criminals claimed as arrested in connection with possession of deadly weapons .. so where have they detained them? - When did they build the new prisons to hold this large number of potentially vicious offenders.

.. "organised crime and gun violence on whānau"

"we are united and committed to achieving our mission to mitigate the effect of organised crime and gun violence on whānau and communities.”

I'd truly like to congratulate our police Management for the difficult & dangerous tasks achieved by our front-line police workers when locating & arresting these armed criminals .. But I wonder how safe are the local whanau if these armed nutters have been returned once again into their homes in the neighborhoods?

Marty K.

Strange 80's Revolver AND Ammunition:

and Strange People doing Strange Things:

The RG 14 .22" Saturday Night Special:

- Forty years ago March 30 1981 mentally-ill obsessive John Hinckley tried to raise his attractiveness & image with actor Jody Foster by attempting to shoot President Ronald Reagan.

There is a whole series of strangeness exposed by this event .. I'll try to be clear with the sorry tale.

1/- Hinckley himself was a strange nut-job who thought that he could make a movie star love him by becoming a murderer.

2/- After NOT charging the insane Hinckley with the murder of Press secretary James Brady - U S authorities eventually released him from psychiatric confinement in 2016.

3/- The would-be killer chose a rubbish  "RG-14" or "Rohm RG14") .22 Long Rifle double-action revolver that was a notoriously unreliable "Saturday Night Special" - bought from Rocky's pawn shop in Dallas .. But

4/- Hinckley loaded the gun with "DEVASTATOR" exploding bullets produced by Bingham ..

5/- He fired off all six rounds AND the gun actually worked six times .. But

6/- Only one round seems to have 'exploded' as they were supposed to.

As is often the case in U S the facts may be disputed .. Hinckley called the bullets he purchased "Stingers" . It took the FBI some time to conclude that the bullets were .22 caliber Devastators. In fact, even though they supposedly had both Hinckley and his weapon, it took them some time to deduce that a .22 weapon was used in the shootings. They first claimed it was a .38. There is little believable evidence that Hinckley fired Devastator bullets from his weapon.

7/- Three Books, Five Movies and One Broadway Musical have been produced featuring the assassination attempt. - Only in America?

8/- The attempt had great benefit for Reagan's popularity; polls indicated his approval rating rose to be about 73%. - Reagan believed that God had spared his life so that he might go on to fulfill a greater purpose.

9/- It was the sixth & last bullet fired that ricocheted off the car and hit the President - who together with any of the Secret Service team .. was not wearing the usual bullet Proof vest.


The hollow tips of the 'Devastator' bullets are modified to accept inserted aluminium percussion caps containing Lead Azide and sealed into place with lacquer. Such explosive tipped projectiles undoubtedly work when fired at hard surfaces such as steel plate .. but the short barreled one and three-quarter inch Rohm revolver is said to maybe have not achieved the 900 ft per sec velocity needed for detonation.

Marty K.

Lead azide is highly sensitive and usually handled and stored under water in insulated rubber containers. It will explode after a fall of around 150 mm (6 in)  - it has immediate deflagration to detonation transition (DDT), meaning that even small amounts undergo full detonation (after being hit by flame or static electricity).

Thursday 6 May 2021

Thermette, Benghazi Boiler, Storm-Kettle, Ghillie, 'Kelly' - and VOLCANO .. A Gem by any Name.

 I like quality old stuff - I really enjoyed reading the 1977 HANDGUNNER Magazine that Greg Ellifritz posted in his Weekend Knowledge Dump .. those old articles were well detailed in their content.  

- I recently bought another old 'Thermette' that seems to be an early heavy tinned model that cost three times as much as the 'Standard Model' back in 1929 New Zealand.

Guaranteed to rapidly boil enough water for 14 cups of tea - the standard copper unit sold for 8 Shillings & 9 pence while the Tinned Model was 27/6d. - I guess families were bigger back then and the kids couldn't refuse hot drinks by saying they only drank sugar syrup & phosphoric-acid cola ..

A short kiwi history to be found here:

This efficient design was patented in New Zealand in 1929 .. but the Kelley family of western Ireland have also built them for generations there - and the design was made and used by gypsy traveling tinsmiths there since the 1800's - and similar styled SAMOVARS are widely known in Russia and Asia going back for perhaps 4,000 years of tea brewing.

Auckland City and Harbor sits upon a volcanic field
 of approx 53 VOLCANOES .. Currently dormant.

I'm getting a bit of a collection of these fellers as I really like copper metal and enjoy the outdoors plus I like the idea of having a cuppa when I survive the next big earthquake eh.

You can get a cooking grill or ring to mount above the chimney making a multi-purpose unit .. but you'd need to be careful about stability when putting heavy pans on top.

I get the impression that some designs may have been made at the railway workshops in the old days - plus the odd plumber may have been a little creative on his quite times ..

- New units are running at nz$200 plus nowadays .. wow I got a bargain with my latest buy. 

 The recent pronouncement that there is a 75% risk here of the Southern Alpine Fault letting-go with a huge EARTHQUAKE in the next 50 years makes a strong argument for prepping to cope with serious disruption to normal life:


Marty K.