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Thursday, 11 May 2017

Moro Warriors - .38"s & .45"s:

 'Colpepper Aramberriberri' again persists in maintaining the legend that the .45" is a magical death ray - and vastly superior to all other calibers. Saying thus:

"..During the Phillipine conflict from 4 February 1899 to 2 July 1902 American forces found the Colt model 1894 double action .38 revolver to be completely inadequate in stopping Moro warriors and it was replaced by the Colt model 1902 double action revolver in .45 Colt.


While admittedly, both the .38 and .45 Colt revolvers then fired round-nose lead-alloy projectiles the inadequacy of the .38 was simply overcome by the larger & heavier .45 projectile.
In this particular case, caliber DID count.   "



Note: The Colt .45" was introduced into the US invasion of the Phillipines in 1902 - The following Wikipedia report relates to hostilities FOUR YEARS LATER in 1906 - with the Muslim fighters confronting military forces armed with the .45pistols ..

- I regret that 'Colpepper' persists in his unshakable faith in Hollywood movies & anecdotal 'Church of The 1911' fables - refusing to accept fact as fact:


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Juramentados and stopping power

In the Moro Rebellion, Moro Muslim Juramentados in suicide attacks continued to charge against American soldiers even after being shot. Panglima Hassan in the Hassan uprising had to be shot dozens of times before he went down. This forced the Americans phase out revolvers with .38 caliber ammunition with Colt .45 ACP pistols against the Moros. Arrows, bayonets, guns, and Kris were used in suicidal rampages by the Moros during their war with the Americans. Suicide attacks became more popular among Moros due to the overwhelming firepower of the Americans in conventional battles. Moro women took part in the resistance at the Battle of Bud Dajo against the American General Lenard Wood in 1906. Barbed wire proved to be of no impediment since Moro juramentado warriors managed to surge directly through it even as it ripped at their flesh and even as they were shot repeatedly with bullets the Moros managed to use barongs to inflict horrific injuries upon American soldiers before finally going down.Moros under Jikiri managed to survive in a cave under machine gun fire by Colt guns. Kris and compilan were used by Moros in fierce close quarter combat against the Americans. Kris and musket were used by the Moro. The Moro with a kris defeats the American with a bayonet at close range when shooting is not possible according to The American journal The Field Artillery Journal, Volume 32. Americans were charged at by Moros using spears and kris. A Moro woman severely injured an American soldier called Johnston.  Moros fought to the death against Americans armed with rifles and artillery while they themselves used only Kris at the crater battle.
Novels were written about juramantados managing to kill soldiers after deliberately impaling themselves on their bayonets.

The mythical .45" seems not to have proven any more decisive against fanatical fighters than .38"s. - But don't worry about the facts eh.

Marty K.

P.S. 

Hi Marty

While the Colt .38 may well have been the official issue revolver, there was far from complete distribution and many of the older service (Colt SAA, S&W Schofield, etc) revolvers in .45 were still on issue.  It was the direct comparison of the battle results between the .38 and .45 that led to the adoption of the .45 again.  .45 revolvers were certainly on issue alongside the .38 Colts, and a number of the new Colt New Service revolvers in .45 were rushed into service before 1900, subsequently being formally adopted in 1909.  The .45 ACP M1911 never appeared until well after the conflict, and never fully replaced the revolvers until after WW1.  It is possible that some private purchase Colt .38 autos were used in the later stages but the first factory prototype .45 auto was not made until 1905.  The old US service.45 revolver cartridge (250 grain lead rn @ 720 fps) was a little bit more powerful than the .45 ACP.  The military .38 Colt revolver load (130 grain lead rn @ 770 fps) was puny and less powerful than a standard .38 Special.  Note that the official US .45 revolver load in the 1890’s was the old .45 S&W cartridge which could be used in both Colt and S&W revolvers.  The original SAA .45 Colt cartridge was more powerful but would not fit the shorter chambers in the S&W’s, hence the standardisation of the shorter round.  The .45’s were definitely superior in battle to the .38’s, so +1 to Col!

Cheers
Rod
Yo, Good Morning Young Rod,

Absolutely - Nobody can deny that a heavier more 'powerful'
round will be more certain in it's effect than a weaker one
. I just like to argue with Col eh  ;-)  ;-)
Marty K.